Curse

IxChel · Sep 23, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

A bunch of interrupt rangers aren't going to be
dominating the HoH or anything.

Yea, interrupt mesmers suck even more. You need 1/2 your skill bar to be interrupts (/w 20s recharge) for you to even begin to interrupting; and then you still miss often unless you've got like every skill's cast times memorized and have very quick reflexes. Even then, you have to forgo your wand attack so that you even have a chance of interrupting a 2s spell.

I look at it this way, either these interrupts are over-powered; or the mesmer interrupts are vastly underpowered.

twicky_kid · Sep 23, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by IxChel

I look at it this way, either these interrupts are over-powered; or the mesmer interrupts are vastly underpowered.

now that is a valid point. if the ranger interrupts are not so unbalanced as everyone thinks (still say wait a week or 2) then the mes interrupts need to fixed.

i used to play with an interrupt mes and i always thought that it wasn't that great b/c i was only affective against casters, but 1/4 of a team is accually casters. so what do i do about the other 3/4 of the team.

no i don't need anyone to list the number of necro, mes, and ele teams there are.

IxChel · Sep 23, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

This doesn't make sense. The arrow is armed (the word representing a rooster was sensored...), the string pulled.

I think what I was suggesting is already how it works; if you've got an attack "in-progress", it finishes before the skill goes off. I think of these interrupt bow attacks as a "rushed thing", in which case, you need to "clean-up" a bit afterwards. So, a simple fix is to add a "after-interrupt" delay of equal time as the bow's refire rate. So, you can get in 2 arrows quickly (the previous attack, and the interrupt) but that's it -- you should not be able to spam 4 of them in a 2s window.

Goonter · Sep 23, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

How do these skill discriptions sound to you?

Distracting Shot
If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foes action but deals only 1-16 damage. If the interrrpted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds. Preparations do not apply with this skill.
Cost 5 | Cast 1/4 | Recast 10

Concussion Shot
If Concussion Shot hits while target foe is casting a spell, the spell is interrupted and your target is Dazed for 5-10 seconds. This attack deals only 1-16 damage. Preparations do not apply with this skill.
Cost 25 | Cast 1/4 | Recast 10

Savage Shot
If Savage Shot hits, your targets action is interrupted. If that action was a spell, you strike for 13-28 damage. Preparations do not apply with this skill.
Cost 5 | Cast 1/4 | Recast 10

Conjures shouldnt hit at all if the arrows miss, but they are still applied to these skills.
Punishing Shot is untouched to keep its name sake.
Im not to sure what a "refire delay" would mean and how it would introduced.
But a slight pause inbetween any bow attack that isnt quickshot seems proper.

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 23, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

just to let people understand...

lv12 OoV OoP
lv10 curse weaken armor + barb 6 + horn bow vs 60 armor
punishing 84.58 dmg + 13 OoP + 13 OoV + 10 igniting + 6 barb + 4 winnowing + 6 favorable = 136.58 dmg
savage 57.29 dmg (w/ spell 96.7) +13 OoP + 13 OoV + 10 igniting + 6 barb + 4 winnowing + 6 favorable = 109.29 dmg (148.7)
distracting 15 dmg + 13 OoP + 13 OoV + 10 ignitng + 6 barb + 4 winnowing + 6 favorable = 67 dmg
All 3 = 290.87 (351.65)

that is 1.5 sec
with 2 rangers, they can successfully kill a caster without any armor mod within 1.5 sec
Of course, this is the extreme way... lets put weaken armor and OoV OoP cast time in...

mes/nec fast cast 12 curse 10 = 1.19sec barb + 1.78 weaken + 2(.75) delay sec = 4.47 sec
+
mes/nec fast cast 12 blood 12 = 1.19 OoV + 1.19 OoP + 2(.75) delay = 3.88

so basically means u need 5 sec of preparing before that 1.5 sec kill your caster then another 1.5 sec within the duration can kill another of your caster... while at it, these ranger naturally got more armor than ele...

2 ranger + 2 me/n... for ele to do the same...

16 air lightning orb =137.45 dmg on 60 armor
137.45 x 4 = 549.8
137.45 x 3 = 412.35
so you need 4 air ele to cast for 2 sec to kill someone

Now personally i think the ranger build sux... to be more effective you probably just have your ranger carry barb and weaken armor themselves... then you can shovel more ranger into a team, with each of them making thier own target... then 4 or 5 opponent would just die right off.

Tijger · Sep 23, 2005, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

.

Like i said, i don't play PvP much so from now on i will just observe this thread. At least i have voiced my opinion

Its already been clearly stated that only PvP players have any say here and specifically casters who are the ones being hit by interrupt rangers, after all, it doesnt help their case with Anet if ppl have the audacity to disagree with the proposed nerf.

twicky_kid · Sep 23, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

I surrender. I can't grasp your logic. Would you please be so kind as to explain why Leech Signet is not balanced?

45 sec recharge

enough said

Hanuman li Tosh · Sep 23, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

just to let people understand...

lv12 OoV OoP
lv10 curse weaken armor + barb 6 + horn bow vs 60 armor
punishing 84.58 dmg + 13 OoP + 13 OoV + 10 igniting + 6 barb + 4 winnowing + 6 favorable = 136.58 dmg
savage 57.29 dmg (w/ spell 96.7) +13 OoP + 13 OoV + 10 igniting + 6 barb + 4 winnowing + 6 favorable = 109.29 dmg (148.7)
distracting 15 dmg + 13 OoP + 13 OoV + 10 ignitng + 6 barb + 4 winnowing + 6 favorable = 67 dmg
All 3 = 290.87 (351.65)

that is 1.5 sec
with 2 rangers, they can successfully kill a caster without any armor mod within 1.5 sec
Of course, this is the extreme way... lets put weaken armor and OoV OoP cast time in...

mes/nec fast cast 12 curse 10 = 1.19sec barb + 1.78 weaken + 2(.75) delay sec = 4.47 sec
+
mes/nec fast cast 12 blood 12 = 1.19 OoV + 1.19 OoP + 2(.75) delay = 3.88

so basically means u need 5 sec of preparing before that 1.5 sec kill your caster then another 1.5 sec within the duration can kill another of your caster... while at it, these ranger naturally got more armor than ele...

2 ranger + 2 me/n... for ele to do the same...

16 air lightning orb =137.45 dmg on 60 armor
137.45 x 4 = 549.8
137.45 x 3 = 412.35
so you need 4 air ele to cast for 2 sec to kill someone

Now personally i think the ranger build sux... to be more effective you probably just have your ranger carry barb and weaken armor themselves... then you can shovel more ranger into a team, with each of them making thier own target... then 4 or 5 opponent would just die right off.

you forgot predatory season. also there are 4 shots in the sequence. it goes kindle, dual/punishing/savage/distract. dont forget to add all the bonuses to the dual shot. you see what im getting at, it creates a huge anount of damage.

MarkyX · Sep 23, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallDrexx

Can someone PLEASE explain why interrupts should 1) be spammable and 2) do more damage then regular ranger builds. PLEASE

They don't deal more damage.

If I wanted to make a damage ranger build, I can do it MUCH better then that interrupt crap.

twicky_kid · Sep 23, 2005, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

They don't deal more damage.

If I wanted to make a damage ranger build, I can do it MUCH better then that interrupt crap.

its time vs dmg

can you do more than 120 dmg in less than 2 sec for the entire match w/o any slow down or cool down time

i don't think so

MarkyX · Sep 23, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I would like to thank the mod for deleting my post without any reasonable explaination.

EDIT: I noticed he got rid of my pic. Good job.

MarkyX · Sep 23, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

its time vs dmg

can you do more than 120 dmg in less than 2 sec for the entire match w/o any slow down or cool down time

i don't think so

Kindle Arrows, Conjure Flame, Favorable Winds, Tiger's Fury, Quick Shot, Dual shot.

twicky_kid · Sep 23, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

How do these skill discriptions sound to you?

Distracting Shot
If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foes action but deals only 1-16 damage. If the interrrpted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds. Preparations do not apply with this skill.
Cost 5 | Cast 1/4 | Recast 10

Concussion Shot
If Concussion Shot hits while target foe is casting a spell, the spell is interrupted and your target is Dazed for 5-10 seconds. This attack deals only 1-16 damage. Preparations do not apply with this skill.
Cost 25 | Cast 1/4 | Recast 10

Savage Shot
If Savage Shot hits, your targets action is interrupted. If that action was a spell, you strike for 13-28 damage. Preparations do not apply with this skill.
Cost 5 | Cast 1/4 | Recast 10

Conjures shouldnt hit at all if the arrows miss, but they are still applied to these skills.
Punishing Shot is untouched to keep its name sake.
Im not to sure what a "refire delay" would mean and how it would introduced.
But a slight pause inbetween any bow attack that isnt quickshot seems proper.

the only thing on the skill that needs to be changed is the recharge. either make the recharge comparable with mesmers (maybe a little less seeing as the flight time for arrows). add some type of "after cast" affect or disable other interrupts for 1/2 sec on each one.

its the recharge that is the killer. i understood why the 1/2 cast was added to compete with mes interrupts and interrupting with a bows normal attack speed is usless.

AeroLion · Sep 23, 2005, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

Kindle Arrows, Conjure Flame, Favorable Winds, Tiger's Fury, Quick Shot, Dual shot.

What's your attribute spread?

MSecorsky · Sep 23, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

the only thing on the skill that needs to be changed is the recharge. either make the recharge comparable with mesmers (maybe a little less seeing as the flight time for arrows). add some type of "after cast" affect or disable other interrupts for 1/2 sec on each one.

its the recharge that is the killer. i understood why the 1/2 cast was added to compete with mes interrupts and interrupting with a bows normal attack speed is usless.

If you truly want "balance", make spells dodgeable or deflectible with whirling defense.

All this talk about damage with interrupts fails to address the reality that arrows can be avoided, and unlike spellcasters, rangers can't shoot around corners.

Man With No Name · Sep 23, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

I really do think making the interupts ignore preparations is enough -- I've done the numbers to prove it =)

It'll mean no more Punishing Shots for 60+ dmg etc...

If we assume a Ranger with:

12 Marksmanship
14 Expertise

With the 3 main skills:

Punishing Shot -- 10e -- 1/2 sec -- 8 seconds -- Interupts and does +18 dmg
Distracting Shot -- 10e -- 1/2 sec -- 10 seconds -- Interupts and hits for 15 dmg
Savage Shot -- 10e -- 1/2 sec -- 5 seconds -- Interupts and hits for 25 dmg if that action was a spell

Now ignoring preparations and critical hits:

The most a Punishing shot will now hit for is 28 + 18 == 46 dmg
The most a Distracting Shot will hit for is 15 dmg
The most a Savage Shot will hit for is 25 dmg on a spell or nothing

Now, even with 8 Rangers hitting Punishing Shot and landing a max hit -- the damage will only amount to: 46 x 8 == 368

Now with 8 Rangers hitting Distracting Shot -- the damage will only amount to: 15 x 8 == 120

Now with 8 Rangers hitting Savage Shot -- which only deals damage on a spell == 25 x 8 == 200

So that's 368 + 120 + 200 == 688 dmg for a whole team of 8 in 1.5 seconds with the next full run taking 10 seconds to be ready

That's not even counting arrows that miss, get evaded, blocked and that's also assuming that each Savage Shot interupts a spell -- which it won't -- at most 1 or two might hit so we can assume the whole damage is now in the region of 500~ for a FULL PARTY OF EIGHT !!!

Now that IMHO is nothing amazing, whilst the interuption is still strong

Now, you want:

Damage --> Duel Shot + QS + Tiger's
Interuption --> Punishing + Savage + Distracting

We can't compare Ranger interupts to Mesmer's -- since ( bar human error ) Mesmer interupts don't miss. Ranger interupts are hard interupts -- Blind screws it, Enchantments screw it, Stances screw it, Spirit Shackles screws it killing Favourable Winds screws it ( since most good rangers bring Flatbow ( high arc ) and Shortbow )

Most of the Mesmer interupts even have a nastier kick -- like lost energy on top of the lost energy from the spell, damage or energy gain for the Mesmer

twicky_kid · Sep 23, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

Kindle Arrows, Conjure Flame, Favorable Winds, Tiger's Fury, Quick Shot, Dual shot.

used to use that exact same build. found the points in flame are wasted for conjure for at lvl 9 for only 10 dmg.

you can't spam quick shot. there is a split sec that you are already 3/4 of the way on your next attack. interrupts you can spam all day long.

that build will only do dmg. i'll take you on 1vs1 with my interrupt and i bet you anything i will win. can't do anything when your attacks are interrupted constatly.

i've tested them 1vs1 many many times so trust me.

i used that build until i ran into a ranger using interrupts and i got owned while his life was still more than half.

you do more dmg but you give up the utility of the interrupt which is priceless. i laugh every time i nail some one with distacting shot while they use res sig. laugh even more when i hit with punishing, sig again, savage, sig again, distracting run!!!!

twicky_kid · Sep 23, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

If you truly want "balance", make spells dodgeable or deflectible with whirling defense.

All this talk about damage with interrupts fails to address the reality that arrows can be avoided, and unlike spellcasters, rangers can't shoot around corners.

obviously you don't know what favorable winds is. you won't be dodging anything unless its via spells or stances.

glockjs · Sep 23, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

i guess people dont understand that rangers have as many weaknesses as warriors....except the fact that i have never been able to step to the left or right and totally avoid a melee attack :shrug:

yes some of the skills need balancing here and there...but it's not as huge as people make it out to be.....

and im sorry if your team cant go in and roll over the other team to do what they want to do to the other team...there's 8 skills you can fill in your bar...before you put that last uber last of the 8 uber skill you need for your elite combo you might want to think about some sort of counter instead.....

/end

MSecorsky · Sep 23, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

obviously you don't know what favorable winds is. you won't be dodging anything unless its via spells or stances.

But arrows can be avoided, yes? Spells can't. There's no 75% chance to avoid a mesmer spell being hurled at you, for example. There's balance.